Committed: The Ties that Bond
with Angella Dykstra
I'm a mom of three, a professional accountant, and an amateur photographer and writer. I am not a marriage expert. But my husband and I take "Til death do us part" seriously, and here I'll be sharing how we keep our marriage strong while we both do that insane work-life juggle.
Check out my Work It, Mom! profile and my blog, Dutch Blitz.
I read a post from a friend of mine where she was pointing out some major flaws in a religious organization and in some of its ideologies. While I agreed for the most part about the complaints she was making there was one point that led to a lengthy email exchange where I cleared up some misconceptions about a well-known Bible verse.
“Wives, submit to your husbands.”
Unfortunately, when taken as a stand-alone phrase and out of the context it was written in, it sounds pretty horrible. Over the ages domineering men has used it as a way to “put women in their place” and establish themselves as the “head of the household”.
The thing is, that is not at all what that passage is about. The very next sentence says, “And husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church”. A little history lesson here: Jesus died an excruciatingly painful death for his church. Whether you believe the Easter story of resurrection or not, the history records do not dispute his crucifixion.
Any good pastor worth his salt will explain what the passage means. The bulk of the entire passage is written to the husbands - they are to take care of their wives, to cherish them, to be willing to die for them. And submission does not mean “ask permission”; it basically means to trust your husband (The guy who has been instructed to put your very well-being before his own) if he has any qualms about decisions you are making. He loves you and wants nothing but the best for you.
How does this work in our relationship? Well, we talk about anything and everything with each other. My husband is my biggest cheerleader and spurns me on to fulfill my dreams. As we talk about options laid out before us he will express reservations if he doesn’t think something is in my best interests (Like when I say YES to everything people ask of me). He doesn’t “forbid” me to do anything; he just loves me and wants to see me flourish.
Because I know that he loves me and that he knows me like nobody else does, I trust his judgment. For the most part. If it’s something that I really want to do he never stands in my way. And if things don’t go the way I hope he never throws an “I told you so” but instead picks me up, brushes me off and holds my hand.
So, yes, I submit to my husband because his dreams for me are far better than my own. And he loves me with a fierceness that is indescribable. That is how marriage was intended to be, in my opinion, Bible verse aside.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the topic.
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I’m not married, but I’ll tell you about something my mom told me. My mom has a stronger personality than my dad, but there are some things my dad would not budge on over the years. Once my mom really, really wanted to do something and my dad was dead-set against it. My mom struggled a lot with this dilemma. She finally decided that in a marriage, being equal sounds nice, but sometimes it isn’t feasible. And when husband and wife disagree 100% about the way forward, and there is no middle ground, then someone has to have the deciding vote, or there is no marriage. So based on the Bible, my mom decided that God intended for the husband to have the deciding vote in that situation. She accepted it and, in all outward respects, moved on. But my dad wasn’t getting any, er, comfort for a long time. Finally their 25th anniversary was coming up, and my mom was wondering if they were even going to celebrate it. My dad came up with a beautiful string of pearls. The rest is pretty much history. (They are still together. That was about 20 years ago.)
SKL | March 2nd, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Angella, thank you for this write up!
I agree that this passage is so mistaken. Sometimes, when I hear it, my first instinct is to think that it makes women out to be subservient doormats, almost. That is NOT what is intended, just like you’ve said. You’ve explained it so much more eloquently than I could have hoped to.
I think that when you are in a relationship where your spouse wants nothing but the best for you, like you’ve described, then the fullness of that verse really comes out. I can trust my husband and strive to honor him, just like how he strives to do the same for me. It’s not a matter of one being dominant over the other, and being submissive to him. It’s about trusting that we have the best interest of each other in our hearts and wanting to make them the happiest they can be. It’s a great goal to reach for.
LauraRad | March 2nd, 2010 at 1:23 pm
I totally agree with you and know the post you’re referring too (loved it!). I automatically wince when I hear the word ’submit’ because during our wedding a family memeber gave the final charge and butchered that verse and basically told ME (in front of 250 guests) to submit to Bryan. NOTHING ELSE. That’s it! Nothing about Bryan loving me like God loves the church.
So that? Was one of the most awful moments of my life. Bryan’s too. He spent our honeymoon calling ALL of my relatives apologizing for his uncle’s behavior.
That is to say yes, I submit to my husband because we respect each other and at times he does the same for me.
samantha jo campen | March 2nd, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Angella, I know we talked about this privately, but I want to clear something up here. I don’t, and never have, disagreed with what you were saying here. I DO, however, STRONGLY disagree with the way the organization I discussed in my post paints this passage. As I told you, my husband and I have a similar marriage to yours in this regard. But I don’t agree with the ideologies of the organization I mentioned in my post.
slynnro | March 2nd, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Slynnro - I know! That’s exactly what I said above!
Angella | March 2nd, 2010 at 2:44 pm
With all due respect, you’re referring to YOUR religion and your view of what a good pastor would do. There are plenty — PLENTY — of churches who take a literal interpretation of the Bible, and a literal interpretation of that verse, as they see fit. The Bible is not a perfect document — it’s interpreted and disseminated by each denomination and religion differently.
It’s nice to explain things here, and that your religion/church does things differently, but that doesn’t mean that others don’t take a different approach. It’s how different denominations come to different conclusions about EVERYTHING, from gays to marriage to abortion.
jonniker | March 2nd, 2010 at 3:04 pm
AMEN!! Totally agree with everything you have said, and we operate in much the same way as you have described. Personally, I would rather have the wife’s end of the bargain. Submitting to my husband doesn’t sound nearly as difficult as loving somebody as Christ loved the church. Jesus was PERFECT and loved the church enough to DIE for them. Kinda huge!!
Hannah | March 2nd, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Jonna - I totally agree. The fact that everyone wants to interpret things differently is exactly why there are so many different denominations.
I didn’t say that what I think is the perfect or exact thing that everyone else should do. I just wanted to clarify that men (and women) over time have really bynged up what was originally written.
What I’m talking about above IS the literal interpretation, after being translated from Greek/Hebrew. There are men (such as our pastor and many others) who spend many years studing those languages, and luckily for us, are able to give the full meaning as it was intended. Unfortunately, the English language is pretty limited in the meanings behind words.
And also unfortunately, people like to take one snippet out of an entire passage to make it something the opposite of what it was meant to mean.
Angella | March 2nd, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Yes yes yes! I hate it when people only look at the first part of that verse and not the second. It’s not a free for all for husbands to turn wives into slaves. And women shouldn’t think that it is, nor should men.
I married a man who is not very assertive. It seems that he actually prefers me to “wear the pants” so to speak. However, I submit to him in any way that I can. And because of this we treat each other with love and respect.
Great post Angella.
Carrisa | March 2nd, 2010 at 4:28 pm
I understand and agree with your explanation of the passage. I think the submission should go both ways: too bad it’s not a good thing to update Biblical language (because, where would you stop!).
My husband is not the wisest person with regard to our finances or my career. We discuss things, yes. 99.9% of the time we work out a mutually satisfactory agreement. But I’m not submitting to his decisions for things where I have the better judgement - even though he does love me very much and believes he has my best interests at heart (As I do his). Fortunately this is not an issue for us.
The husband being in a position to “know” what’s best comes from a historical perspective. Men were, in the past, generally better educated than women and had better decision making tools (or so was the idea then). That’s not true today - certainly not in my case. I think submit to each other in the areas of best strengths and abilities is a far better way to live. And I think there’s too much interpretive leeway taken in some churches/denominations to ever, ever have that submission language in a wedding ceremony. Or in any church setting absent a careful explanation.
(Of course, going back to your original, the man who loved his wife like the Church would, theoretically, know when she had the better decsion toolkit so her submitting would not be at issue… I understand, but that’s all theory and not much present in the real world.)
Grace | March 2nd, 2010 at 5:10 pm
I think the real issue comes in, when the husband doesn’t hold up his end of the deal. How do you submit to a man who meets any word of displeasure with a fist to the face? And they will use the same passage to justify their actions.
How do you submit when his idea of taking care of you is bankruptcy & homelessness because he was chasing the dream?
I think submission works well in marriages where both parties understand the contract. But too many do not.
And I have to say Angella, of all my years in church, only TWICE have I heard a pastor that decided to continue on past that line. So too many people do not really understand the whole passage.
Mich | March 2nd, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Yes, well. Take Missouri Synod Lutherans, for example, where my parents belong, which believes that THEIR interpretation is literal — and that the woman must submit to the man in marriage. I wasn’t really talking for the Focus on the Family extremists — or any extremist, per se — but for the scores of religions and denomination who are sort of in the middle, but interpret things differently.
I think I am more speaking to the tone that the assumption is that your pastor — because he’s spent years studying this, as most of them have — is “right.” I don’t actually think religion is something that you can be right in. That’s what you believe, and that’s what your church believes, but it’s not necessarily right. I HATE the idea of “rightness” in religion, because it in itself, is self-righteous. I don’t think this what you meant, but it’s how it can be interpreted, you know?
jonniker | March 2nd, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Angella- I also do want to say that I agree with Jonna in that I don’t think anyone can say an interpretation of scripture is right. I think most people who read and interpret such things also claim their right to be right, and well. . . everyone can’t be. But we also can’t really know who IS right. I also don’t think anyone HAS to be right anyway. I think the ultimate lessons of the Bible are more about being kind and respectful to everyone. I don’t think we have to get into specific lessons of the bible, and specific issues, to live a life God would love. I personally like to think that if there is a good, he’s a pretty accepting dude, and one who is willing to listen to new ideas and adjust previous positions as needed, just like great mortals do.
slynnro | March 2nd, 2010 at 6:53 pm
I meant to say “if there is a GOD”
slynnro | March 2nd, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Hi Angella. I don’t think I’ve commented here before - I just started reading you recently. But I did read and comment over on the post you mention, and I struggled with this issue a little. I have to echo what Slynnro and Jonna said, but I also want to offer a little bit of a different perspective, from someone with a background in languages/translation. There *is* no literal translation of the bible. It’s not possible. It’s just not. That is one of the inherent problems in interpreting scripture, particularly when people choose to take it literally as they so often do.
It may be a well translated version of Greek or Hebrew, as you say. The thing is, aside from there being multiple versions of the bible written by different men for different reasons, Jesus spoke neither Greek nor Hebrew. He spoke Aramaic. Similar to Hebrew, but not the same. And when you translate anything through multiple languages over thousands of years, you must factor in a certain loss of meaning as it carries through time, and cultures - and a loss of meaning from the human factor, as translation is an imperfect human art. Translation is not a science. Even reading a “perfect” translation will never be the same as reading it in the original language, in the context of that time and culture.
And, uh, I guess even if that weren’t enough to convince, it’s pretty clear that it’s still very much open to interpretation.
Caitlin | March 2nd, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Caitlin - Thanks so much for chiming it. I agree with you 100% and I shouldn’t have used the word literal. I also stated above that I agree that things are subject to different interpretations. I think that my point got skewed my Jonniker & Slynnro’s comments.
Jonna & Slynnro - I also have no disagreement with your points…but you both seem to be arguing something that was not at all the point of this post.
My point was pretty simple: People have taken one line of an entire passage and made it out to be the opposite of what it means when you look at the interpretations for the word submit and when you look at the rest of the passage. The other commenters knew what I was trying to say and their comments can shed more light on that.
I wasn’t talking about “interpretation” but rather “omission of the whole story”. It can happen to any letter, email, or blog post even. I just wanted to point out that there was more to the story and how it applied in *my* life. I did not say I was right or anything. I just wanted to point out that there was more to that passage than that one sentence, taken out of context.
If you guys want to debate religion, feel free to write a post about it. I personally HATE religion (that word makes me cringe) but happen to have a faith that helps me through this thing called life.
Thanks for participating ladies - I hope I finally clarified what I was trying to say for the three of you.
Angella | March 2nd, 2010 at 9:58 pm
I will never understand why people get so bent out of shape about this passage. If you like it, follow it. If not, don’t. Preferably sort out with your boyf or girlf where they stand on it before you get married. It does work for me.
Focus on the Family is a troublesome group, sure, but they are by no means representative of all religion. People talk about the intolerance of F on the F, but there is a generally accepted intolerance of religion out there that I find just as, er, intolerant.
Lindsay | March 2nd, 2010 at 10:00 pm
What an interesting post. Even though you have described it so eloquently, I would still say no I don’t submit to my husband. If there is something he feels strongly about that I don’t, I’ll gladly follow his lead. But if there is something we both feel strongly about I can’t say I’d “submit” to what he wants because I think he is choosing what is best for me. I’m not saying I won’t go to his side, I’m just saying I won’t automatically do it because a bible passage tells me too.
Great post again Angella.
Jenn
Jenn | March 2nd, 2010 at 11:53 pm
Well written dear. I’m with you all the way. I love and submit to my husband….but this doesn’t mean I am a doormat in anyway. We have two lovely kids and have a strong marriage based on biblical principles. GOD has a great plan for us. I think many people use that particular bible verse wrongly! Like you, my husband has always supported me. In fact he has pushed me to do so many things and fulfil my dreams.
veronica | March 3rd, 2010 at 9:33 am
Well said!!! That particular section of the bible has been cause for many, many discussions with a few people who have crossed our pathes over the years.
I believe God placed the majority of the responsibility of the marriage in the hands of the husbands for a few reasons. Most women (myself included) lead with our hearts, we react based on emotion far too often and too easily, by nature while a man may still lose his temper or make an emotionally driven statement, they are more likely to lead with their heads. It’s why you need one of each of us to make the perfect paring in a marriage.
Corey and I have adopted the philosphy that while I make most of the household/child rearing decisions because I’m home, we make the life decisions together. We both believe that God has called us to pray together, to consult each other and Him over our decisions and ultimately He is the one in control. Not Corey and Not me. But when we do come to an impass on a big decision, when an answer isn’t obvious, we fall back on Corey to make the final decision. Because he is the head of our home and I believe with my whole heart that God is leading him in our marriage too.
Great post!
Ashley | March 3rd, 2010 at 11:01 am
Hm. Okay. But you brought up interpretation of the Bible in this context, and it seemed relevant. I talk about submission and the interpretation of this with my parents a lot — my parents who, by the way, as I mentioned, have read the whole passage, but take it differently. I don’t think I said anything that I wouldn’t say to them, even though they have more reason to be defensive, you know?
You said any pastor worth his salt would explain it — and though I disagree with my parents, I daresay theirs would beg to differ.
I’m not debating religion here — I’m not even religious — but discussing what different passages mean to different people is interesting. If that wasn’t your point, I’m not sure what was?
jonniker | March 3rd, 2010 at 11:13 am
Two more things.
1) I think this is an important discussion because many woman have almost gone in the opposite direction in rebellion of the “wives submit to your husband” line. Instead of trying to think what good intention might have been behind the statement, they attribute it to MCP ignorance or worse. That is just as bad as using it as an excuse for mistreatment of women.
Having read the Bible numerous times, I can say that for the most part, it is not an MCP book. Really, no significant part of it is. I wish I could be as strong as some of the women in that book. It is, however, historical literature. Women did certain things in those days if they wanted to be safe, respected, taken seriously. (The same is actually true today.) Focusing on the details and judging words based on today’s standards belies a lack of interest in understanding the message. I’d suggest such people withhold judgment until they are ready for a truly serious study of the scriptures.
2) I think one reason why the concept of “submission” (however you interpret it) feels uncomfortable is because, how many people in our society actually submit to God - or even aspire to do so?
SKL | March 3rd, 2010 at 11:55 am
SKL - An insightful and well-articulated comment, per usual. I don’t think I’ve mentioned it before but I always love it when you chime in.
Both points are great, though the second point resonated with me a little stronger…mainly because I I have often thought the same thing.
Angella | March 3rd, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Angella. I very much dispute that I’ve skewed anything you’ve said. You said this:
“There are men (such as our pastor and many others) who spend many years studing those languages, and luckily for us, are able to give the full meaning as it was intended.”
I said this:
“I also do want to say that I agree with Jonna in that I don’t think anyone can say an interpretation of scripture is right. I think most people who read and interpret such things also claim their right to be right, and well. . . everyone can’t be. But we also can’t really know who IS right.”
Like I said, no one can tell us with any degree of certainty what something’s intended meaning is, save for the person who wrote it.
slynnro | March 3rd, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Submission rocks because it turns out it is actually this mutual measure of respect that just grows and strengthens a marriage.
Christ submitted to the cross.
All we’re asked to do is submit to our husbands.
Much easier task if you ask me.
OMSH | March 4th, 2010 at 12:17 am
Very well written Angella. Something I probably don’t do quite right in our marriage but I’m going to bookmark this post and spend some time meditating on it
Jilian | March 4th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Wow, lots of discussion on this one. Good post A! Way to keep it controversial
I almost didn’t comment because I feel like I could go on and on forever about this topic. I’ll try not to.
I have had a joyous time reading the Bible for myself over the ten years I’ve been a Christian. It’s good to read the word for yourself to see what God has to say about everything instead of accepting other people’s take on it.
Thanks for posting!
I became a Christian and a wife at around the same time, age 20. For the first handful of years I bristled at all the church women leaders and church women books who told me ’submit submit submit’ especially in the face of real conflict.
About five years in I finally read that verse for myself - and the surrounding verses and context and I felt overjoyed. If my husband loved me the way Christ loves the church, submission would come joyfully and naturally.
Unfortunately, my husband does not love me the way Christ love the church. This verse is an especially hard pill for me to swallow at times that he withdraws from both me and from God. At these times I want to say, ‘well you won’t…so I won’t…’ and at that time the Holy Spirit usually nudges my heart and reminds me that I can freely and lovingly offer my submission regardless of how my husband is acting at any given moment. As Christians we are FREE to love like this.
And I am also reminded of times that my husband HAS chosen to love me and go out on a limb for me at times in my life where I have been very unlovable. Marriage is a two way street.
I try to submit. But I am learning that real submission is different than some of the connotations we associate with the word. Submitting is not being a doormat or being dominated or always deferring to your husband’s opinion, or being bullied. It always has what is best for the other party in mind. It is always loving. It is sometimes difficult. It is always worth it.
I’ll stop now. This is getting long.
Danica | March 4th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
WOW!!! and again I say WOW! My eyes are still in amazement about what I just read!! To quote a prophet..”Flesh and blood have not revealed this to you….”,,Angella, to be able to interpet this scripture the way you have is a blessing.Not only does it free you up from selflessness but it encourages your husband,I am sure, to be more Christ-like in his attitude toward you..which is what you want anyway!!Most men who truly love the Lord interpet that scripture just like you did..but people usually interpet it from what a women has to do.God is saying .trust your husband,believe in what i’m doing in his life and trust ME for the outcome.Jesus is our perfect example.We are doing a study tonight in our weekly bible class and I asked God to give me another perspective on the scripture. Thanks for being his vessel.May God Bless You and Yours.
In Christ.
Ezell
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ezell | December 6th, 2010 at 4:29 pm