Full Time, All the Time
with Britt and Robyn
I'm Britt. I work full time as a mom, wife, blogger and salesperson with a fancy management title. And I'm Robyn. I work as a project manager and between corporate meetings manage to cook a home-made meal every day. This blog is about our experiences of juggling full-time work with family.
Check out our personal blogs:
Miss Britt and Who's the Boss?
Gruff, unreasonable, and known to once make a co-worker cry, my spouse has been trying to make changes in his demeanor. He knows the way he acts could possibly get in the way of future advancement. In the past year, he’s become a very different guy. He’s made friends with co-workers (we’ve even invited a few over for dinner), goes to a monthly poker night, and has softened his tough-guy image.
Except in one arena: he hates going out to lunch with his co-workers. His team goes out to lunch as one big group about every two weeks. They pick a fancier restaurant than my spouse is comfortable with and tend to rack up a big bill that often includes alcohol. At the end of the meal, each person is expected to split the bill equally regardless of whether they ordered only a small plate or had three martinis plus an appetizer.
My penny-pinching partner is practically having bleeding ulcers over paying 30 bucks for a lunch that he didn’t really enjoy.
My spouse is a typical finance guy. He balances a budget, questions every single purchase, and is a reporting guru. He’s incredibly talented at his job. With a background in IT and two degrees in Finance, the guy is an asset to any organization. While he can run circles around most finance people, he’s lacking in the soft skills department.
He knows that things like team lunches are important. But he also feels like he’s putting more out there than he’s getting back. On my advice, he’s tried to get out of a few and only go once a month or less. It’s not like he has to be there for every lunch. But his manager made notice when he didn’t show up to an employee-funded softball game where each person was expected to shell out $50 to pay for the field, the equipment rental, and food.
The whole concept of regular, employee-paid team lunches is new to me. In all my jobs, the entire team typically only got to together when the boss was paying. Otherwise, people would break off into small groups of 2-4 to get lunch. I often make jokes with old co-workers than we once belonged to the best lunch club ever. There were 6 of us that all loved the same foods, loved to get away from the office for lunch, and got along so well that we regularly ate lunch together at least three times a week. Sure, we often split the bill but no one would have taken advantage of that by ordering three martinis and expecting everyone else to chip in for it.
I always know when it’s been “team lunch day” for my spouse. He comes home and complains about it. A lot. My advice to him was to only go once a month AND to learn how to cough over the money without resenting his team. I said to drive alone, leave lunch early, and give cash for “his share” before the bill came in. I didn’t believe it could be that big a deal, until he showed me an email sent from his controller where she told him that he owed her $15 after the bill was split equally. $15 dollars more than what he had already contributed which covered the cost of his meal plus tax and tip. Who does that??
While there certainly are no free lunches, my spouse is surely feeling like he’s personally subsidizing it for others.
So he’s asked me to ask all of you for advice. Should he just suck it up and fork over his wallet? Or is there a way in which he can approach the subject with his manager that doesn’t make him look like the resident jerk?
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I’ve always found that the best way to be social, without getting stuck doing something you don’t want to do (or paying for something you don’t want to pay for) is to throw your own event. When I was in school, most of the parties I was invited to were not my cup of tea (too much drinking, etc), so I started hosting my own dinner parties themed around the things I like to do (eat, play board games, discuss a book everyone has read in advance; I even once hosted a bring-your-own-craft-and-appetizers party). These things might not be your husband’s cup of tea either, but maybe there is something that he likes that he wouldn’t mind doing with co-workers, in which case he could be the one to plan an event and send the invites (this also gives him complete control over how much the event will cost and how much each person will contribute; it could be as simple as planning his own “team lunch” at a place with a price fixed menu and cheaper drinks). The people who attend are more likely to be people he will enjoy being around, and those that don’t will just have to take their turn at being the unsocial ones, and whatever consequences stem from that. If he does this fairly regularly, people will see him as being very social and hospitable and he will gain currency to duck out of the activities he does not enjoy more often than not.
Jesse | May 22nd, 2009 at 8:00 am
Your husband sounds a lot like me. Basically I HATE most of the food choices that my ex-co-workers loved. For them Heaven was steak and alcohol. Blech! I can take steak maybe twice a year, and never buy alcohol.
I usually avoided these meals, but even when I couldn’t, I was never made to pay for them! I could see how your husband is disgusted by this. I do have a few ideas.
First, I bet he is not the only person who cringes when paying more for a single lunch than many people spend on dinner for a week. Or who has dietary issues with Mack’s Steakhouse. If he knows of at least one other such person, he could start a positive discussion without it being all about “his” discomfort. He could start the discussion by saying some people want to participate but find it difficult to do so because of individual considerations.
Here are some suggestions I’ve seen in practice - not at work, but they ought to be OK for work too:
1) Employees take turns choosing a lunch spot. He and some like-minded people will choose places where you can’t possibly run up a $50 lunch bill. Panera comes to mind.
2) Employees get separate bills. One of my professional organizations does this for “dine-a-round” networking events. Someone has to call ahead to ensure that the restaurant allows separate checks, and we don’t go there if they don’t. It’s nice because those who want to enjoy something expensive can do so without guilt. (Surely at least some in your husband’s group would feel guilty forcing another person to pay $50 for a salad and water.)
3) Do a “tour” of restaurants on a theme, e.g., international. This can be fun and instructive, and is likely to average less cost than places that serve steak & alcohol.
4) Is it possible to have a pot luck in the office cafeteria? My ex-employer did this once or twice a year around a special event and it went over well.
5) Go out for breakfast instead of lunch. Couch it as a productivity booster.
I suspect that if your husband words this and circulates it the right way, it will be well-received by all but the most selfish jerks. Until that happens, I would find excuses to miss the lunches more often than not.
SKL | May 22nd, 2009 at 9:36 am
I have the best idea. Have lunch catered. He could say that he enjoys everyones company at lunch but has a lot of work to do so how about bringing in food. I mean. There’s usually no alcohol at work places like an office. Also. It would be cheaper. I mean pasta could get delivered where its family style with salad or something. Maybe he could start ‘pasta day’ or something?
It would show that he is involved and cares (pretending here) by organizing something. He just needs to completely switch the venue. That’s what we do at my office. (My boss also pays for it) but its a way we reconnect here and then we can scuttle off to our offices when needed.
This might also be the perfect time of year to implement it because the weather is picking up too.
Or, he could start a “lunch vote”. I bet a lot of other people are broke in his office and cringe at the bill. So maybe a random sort of restaurants are put up for a silent vote where people just vote throughout the three weeks or so.
gwendolyn | May 22nd, 2009 at 10:26 am
Oh, this is one of my biggest pet peeves.
Here’s what I think: there is absolutely no reason why anyone should be forced to socialize at work. Especially when there is a financial cost to participate.
What your husband’s company is doing–especially the email from the controller about him not paying for his share–could be construed as harassment and hostile work environment. And t could also be considered in the same league as being forced to buy Amway products from your boss under threat of your job.
I doubt your husband is the only one who doesn’t appreciate supporting his coworkers’ 3-martini lunches. He’s being taken advantage of in the guise of collegiality, and it’s bullshit.
I’d go to my boss and say that I would love to play, but only if people are responsible for their own costs, that I will only be paying my share of food/bev/tax/tip, and I should be told in writing if my decision to demand equity will hurt my career. If I got the letter, I’d go to HR and file a complaint. Or find an employment attorney.
And the whole softball thing? Bullshit.
lynn @ human, being | May 22nd, 2009 at 11:35 am
The softball game: he should have sucked it up and forked over. That was a team building exercise. And if he goes to these extracurricular events then it is easier to bow out of the lunches.
For the lunches, he should make it a point to save some money aside in his “career advancement” bucket and then go once a quarter or every other month, have the app, have the dessert, and, here’s the key, enjoy himself.
Then when they ask why he doesn’t go more often, he can say while he enjoys that occassionally his budget doesn’t allow for that very often.
If this person mentions he could pay less, he can pull out that followup email and note that when he has a salad & soda he can’t at this time spend another $15 for everyone else’s desserts. Sometimes it takes looking at it like that for people to realize their own habits.
I had friends who I loved going out with; they weren’t even splitters but were reguarly putting in a 10% tip and not enough for tax and I would end up covering. So, I gradually went out less and less. When asked about it the next time I went out, I quietly noted that I had paid $20 for a hamburger and soda and just couldn’t do that every week. The person was embarassed and realized that she’d been leaving it up to her partner to figure it out. The next time, she figured their fair bill. He was a little taken aback, but going out with them became easier again.
It takes a little pulling back and calm fact stating to get through to people who are usually oblivious. Now some are trying to get away with something (e.g. my friend’s partner) but most, like my friend, are simply unaware they were placing a burden on others.
Mich | May 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 am
wow - i had no idea that people still drank alcohol at lunch anymore! isn’t that why you have happy hour?
i know at my company we are doing everything we can to keep costs low and still create a team atmosphere. We do organize lunches and events and other things that are ‘not officially sponsored’ events (i.e. not paid for by the company and totally voluntary!)
the difficulty is that managers and above are expected to participate at all of these - and part of that is because you are paid more and expected to create a positive work environment for your boss. At least at my company, however, we look for inexpensive solutions!! not $50 for softball or lunch! that’s just crazy!
Next week we are going to lunch for a co-workers 15 year celebration - it’s one of those japanese steak houses where they cook everything in front of you - nothing is over $15 and we don’t condone drinking during working hours…
$60-$100 a month is asking a lot, i think… there should be a happy medium!
Kate | May 22nd, 2009 at 12:41 pm
I don’t agree with the baseball game either. Ya know, there are some people who just LOVE this stuff but that is no good reason to force other people to do it - even if they don’t have to pay for it.
I used to get a lot of this because I was a woman in a very male-dominated field. Their attitude toward women was, you have to start thinking like a man if you want to be successful here. You had better learn the names of everyone on the local basketball team and read the sports page every day. What if some woman boss had come in and told all the men they needed to participate in a “team building” quilting exercise? What if the men were subjected to that several times a year, and their promotions depended on it? And, what if they were forced to pony up $50 each time? To me, this is no different from being forced to go out drinking and eating steak in order to “fit in.” This is not about teaming, but about excluding people who don’t conform both in and outside of the office.
SKL | May 22nd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Robyn, this totally sucks. my hubby goes out to lunches too but he doesnt drink so usually his co-workers take that into account and let him pay his share and thats it. if the matter got to his controller sending him an email…that should be it!!
he should go and talk to them and tell them that although he loves to hang out with them, he cannot afford such affluent lunches ever so often. tell him to stand up for himself. afterall, the image of penny pincher is not so bad. infact, i believe that no one comes to run your house so no one should criticize you on not overspending..that is just ridiculous!! Each’s money matter is his own! no one shud and can judge it. and if they do, well screw with them!! No one should be forced to socialize like this.
he should tell the ‘head’ of the group(some senior person) that each should be responisble for their share of the cost and that the bill should come to each individual!!.
ugh..no wonder ur hubby complains. i would too if i was made to pay so much! ugh! His best bet is to talk to his supervisor or controller.
Keyomi | May 22nd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
When he does choose to go out to lunch, I would try telling the food server that I required a separate check. If anyone asks why, I’d say “for receipt and financial planning purposes.”
It’s INCREDIBLY rude of these people to be doing this. How can they not know that? Did they just crawl out from under a rock?
Robyn | May 22nd, 2009 at 1:13 pm
I was originally going to say suck it up, until I read the rest of your post and the comments. This does seem a little unreasonable, and the email and $50 softball game, geez. Does the team all make a decent amount of $ and are in similar circumstances? I personally love going out to lunch, but had to limit myself as I was the sole breadwinner and could not afford as much as my coworkers. But we’d also try to vary the restaurants, and the only time we really split a larger bill as an obligation was when we took someone out for a good bye lunch, and many of those were taken care of by a manager. I think there were some good ideas in the comments. I suspect he’s not a gossip around the break room type, but it would be interesting to hear what others had to say. I’m not against alcohol at lunch (but it makes me too sleepy to drink it
but to have to split an alcohol bill for a team lunch sounds way out of line.
Nicole Pelton | May 24th, 2009 at 1:02 am
When I moved to Italy, I was confronted with the cultural reality that meals are split equally, that poeple don’t look at the details, and things usually settle themselves. At first, I was like your husband, looking what I was “giving away.” And often I was acutely aware when I got more than what I paid for.
But you know what? It is such a freedom to not have to be a penny-pincher anymore. What goes around comes around. And if people lighten up a little, people receive as much in kind.
If this is one thing your husband doesn’t want to work on (i.e., being more generous in general), then the shortcut is have him blame it on you, his wife. When my husband has to make a decision that makes him unpopular with his friends, colleagues, etc., I tell him to say, “Ugh, my wife won’t let me… she is such a cheapskate, and has been breaking balls about my spending. Can I skip out this time?”
But from you email, he may have to wait a few times - it looks like his colleagues and his boss are on to him… and no one likes a cheapskate! Good luck!
Natalie | May 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Ohhh, this would bug the crap out of me. I don’t mind group lunches and almost ALWAYS go to lunch with my co-workers. But I’m one of the most frugal people I know. I don’t want to have to pay for someone else’s extravagance.
Miss Britt | May 26th, 2009 at 9:36 am
What type of place does your husband work where people are drinking at lunch time? That would make me incredibly uncomfortable.
I think if your husband doesn’t feel like he’s getting the social benefits of the lunch, then he should politely decline. Say he’s on a diet, a budget, a whatever. People should respect that. He can certainly supplement his lack of lunch time face time with other activities and being social in other arenas.
Katie | May 28th, 2009 at 9:13 am
He should suck it up.
Tracey | June 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am