Parenting Without a Manual
with Talyaa Liera
I'm Talyaa, the poster child for the concept that there's no one right way to be a parent. I went from stay-at-home attachment-parenting mom of four to being the non-custodial parent, working as a professional writer and channel-psychic. Let's talk about throwing away the parenting manual and exploding the myths and mystique of motherhood!
Check out my personal blog at Juxtapositioning.
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I let Mean Lady out this week. We were at the park, enjoying an unusually balmy northeast November weekend afternoon. The park is a huge wooden castle-like structure that was built by the community several years ago, and it holds hundreds of kids. Maybe thousands. And they were all there that day. Thousands of them. Screaming. Running. Jumping. Pushing. Screaming. Mostly screaming. And Mean Lady just had to come out.
Mean Lady didn’t like it when she saw a girl of about 6 run right onto a bouncy bridge where there was a 2-year old playing, toddling back and forth on his wee wobbly legs. And stand right where he was. And then jump. Hard. 2-year old predictably fell down and cried. Little girl ran off, but not before the Mean Lady cornered her and said that Jumping Hard like that on a bouncy bridge where there is a kid smaller than you is Not Cool. Little girl’s eyes got big and round and she edged away from Mean Lady, keeping a close eye on her for the next hour.
Mean Lady came out again to another little girl (does she have something against girls? or are they just mean these days?) who thought she could weasel her way through a narrow passage past Mean Lady’s youngest spawn, knocking him to the side. Mean Lady told Weasel Girl to Wait Her Turn. Weasel Girl ignored her, but not before several Mean Lady Eye Darts were embedded in her brain.
Mean Lady also appeared on the airplane after listening to a high-pitched squeaky voice behind her sing “He’s got the whole world in his hands” four or five hundred times while the back of her seat was being kicked repeatedly for an hour. Mean Lady’s scary smiling face appeared over the top of the seat and informed squeaky two-year old (nicely, smiling) that there was a Real Live Person in the seat in front of her and that while the Real Live Person understood how difficult it was to be Two and to be on an airplane that had to make an emergency landing in Fargo, North Dakota and was therefore delayed for hours and hours, this Real Live Person would appreciate it very much if she could understand that every time she kicked the seat, R.L.P. could feel it, thank you.
I have always hated it when people spoke to my kids unkindly. It hasn’t happened often, but when it has it felt like a slight on my parenting abilities — the implication being that somehow I should be able to keep my children under control at all times. My bunch is pretty well-behaved, for the most part. And except for my youngest, who marches to his own Down syndrome beat, they are conscious of how they come across in public.
I am possibly the worst hypocrite in the universe, but I have come to the point where I no longer stay silent if other people’s kids are acting in ways that could hurt other people or are unsafe, or — in the case of the airplane — are just patently annoying. At the same time, I resent it when other people discipline my kids. That does make me hypocritical, doesn’t it? I mean, can I really have it both ways?
I figure it’s better to speak up. And I’d also prefer to be the person disciplining my kids if they need it, at least if I’m right there. I probably erred by not speaking directly to the squeaky seat-kicking two-year old’s mother (she made some oblique comments about me, saying to no one in particular that “some people should understand that two-year olds have been on an airplane all day,” but as I also had been on an airplane all that day myself and was feeling cranky, plus have have been on innumerable flights with my own kids and was successful in ensuring that they refrained from excessive seat-kicking, I ignored her), but I figured I’d treat the seat-kicker the way I would treat my own kids. Like a person who could be reasoned with.
Meh.
So, what do you think? Do you discipline other people’s kids? In what kind of situations? And how do you feel when other people — strangers — butt in attempt to discipline yours?
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If there’s danger to my kids or property, or to another small child who can’t speak for himself, I intervene. This is rarely necessary. But in such a case, if my kids were the ones causing the problem, I’d want someone to correct them too. I don’t assume that it implies they are better parents than I am. Now, if they make a snarky comment, that’s another story. But most of the time they know it could just as easily be their own kid.
When it comes to the airplane and similar situations, I try to remind myself that part of my irritation is due to my own situation. If I were feeling great myself, would I be patient enough to ignore the kicking? After all, the parent has very limited options for distracting the child or using up her energy. But if it was really obnoxious after the parent had a chance to deal with it, I might have turned around and made a friendly suggestion to the parent. Or maybe just look pointedly at the child’s feet and the back of my seat. Maybe asked the flight assistant for a pillow to jam into the sick-sack pocket that the kid was kicking. I don’t think I’d directly address a 2-year-old regarding etiquette with her parent sitting right there. An older kid, maybe.
SKL | November 11th, 2009 at 9:07 am
I agree with SKL that if your intervention can PREVENT something dangerous from happening, you should absolutely go for it. I would hope that another parent would prevent my child from jumping off of a high piece of playground equipment or from pulling another child’s hair. If the damage has already been done, however, (e.g. the little girl who had already knocked the two year old down) I’m afraid it’s no longer the place of someone aside from the offending child’s parent to discipline (though another parent ought to jump in to remedy the problem or console if a hurt child’s parent is somehow not available). The ultimate question is what will you accomplish in the situation - prevention is a justifiable and worthwhile end; teaching an important life lesson is simply not going to happen by the act of a stranger and will only serve to frighten the child and isolate yourself from the child’s parent. There is always the argument that correcting the first incident prevents the second one (maybe you stopped the little girl from jumping over the next bridge with a two year old on it) but I think in that instance time is not of the essence and so the more reasonable course of action is to find alert the parents of the child that is misbehaving or find and alert the parents of the child who might be the next likely victim (”could you please ask your daughter to be more careful; there’s a lot of little ones playing here” or “you might not want to put your toddler on there; there’s older kids acting wild”).
In the case of something less than dangerous (like the kicking the back of your seat) I don’t think you should ever address a child directly; it is entirely up to the parents to instill manners and other behavior protocol, especially if the child is small (this might vary, for a preteen who is practicing being out in the world as an adult). I would not want someone else correcting my toddler. That being said, it is perfectly reasonable to address the issue with the parents if their child’s behavior is presenting a problem to you. (Of course, if it’s only presenting a problem to the child - like you don’t think they should be eating sweets so late at night - it’s probably better to mind your own business, no matter how close you are to the child’s parents).
Jesse | November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
In a safety situation, you bet I’ll discipline other people’s kids, whether for their own safety or that of me or my children. Plus, I hope I’m vigilant enough to catch my kids being unsafe or inappropriate, but if a stranger catches them, kindly and appropriately, I try to be grateful despite my resentment and embarrassment.
feefifoto | November 11th, 2009 at 11:04 am
A great topic.
I am a teacher and, as such, have no problem disciplining other people’s kids; in fact, my job requires it. Still, like many other moms and teachers, I go beyond the call of duty and will discipline other people’s children if the situation warrants it.
Case One: waiting in a doctor’s office, two boys (aged 7 and 9) wrestling on a couch while mom is with the doctor.
Case Two: at a beach, a child two-hand pushes my daughter into the water. His parents, meanwhile, are drinking. A simple, “I wouldn’t do that if I were you” usually suffices.
As responsible citizens, I think we should gently guide others. It does, after all, take a community to raise a child.
Leanne Shirtliffe (http://ironicmom.com) | November 11th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Both your playground incidences, I would have (and indeed have) done what you did.
I’m even with you on the plane in some circumstances. Yes, I’ve been the mom trying to entertain the hours delayed 2 year old. It is AWFUL. I do get it. But it doesn’t mean you get to give up parenting because you’re both exhausted.
If the child’s feet occassionally wandered up the seat back and mom was saying, appropriate things like “don’t kick the nice lady” I’ll let it slide.
But if the child is continually kicking, hard, and mom is saying nothing, then it has. to. stop. I would probably try to catch mom’s eye first but I’ve had mother pointedly ignore the look. So then I will say something to the child in the kind smiley way. Because even a 2 year old can grasp “don’t kick”. Your bored child does not get to injure me just because, you know, it’s hard on a long flight to be still.
Mich | November 11th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Before we moved, I was the Mean Lady on the block. Behind us there lived a child or about 9 or 10. His mother is a drug addict and so this child is out by himself, with no supervision, all hours of the day and night. I disciplined him for the following:
1. Putting a cat in the backyard BBQ owned by his landlord and trying to turn it on.
2. Taking our next door neighbor child’s bike.
3. Shooting a cap gun at passing cars.
4. Breaking our fence.
5. Dragging a cat behind him on a bicycle, with a string tied around it’s neck. (NOTE: It was at that point that their own next door neighbors intervened and took the cat from him - apparently it was his pet).
6. Trying to steal our ladder from under our back porch and, when caught red handed, denying it. He was holding the ladder at the time.
Then, one day, a family moved in next door. With them came a woman, her baby, her two school aged but young children, her two brothers, both of whom are intimately known to the drug task force on our local PD and any number of permanent “guests” of a dubious nature.
The two school aged kids are very young and, like their new friend behind them, constantly unsupervised. Discipline unto them went as follows:
1. Trying to break into our locked, back gate.
2. To the little boy: Balancing on a fence over a concrete pad. He got down that day, but the next day, he fell off and hit ground so hard it shook our house. Note, his mom didn’t want to take him to hospital. I almost called the cops.
3. Beating the shnot out of his sister.
4. Telling an 11 year old neighbor girl that she could, “Suck my dick with your pretty mouth.”
5. Trying to saw the fence. Then chasing other kids with the saw.
Both families I reported to DCF. But yes, there is a time and a place to discipline other kids. I’ve spoken with big kids who knocked my own daughter over on purpose and made her cry on the playground, but only because I couldn’t find their parents.
We’ve since moved. I don’t see the Children from Hell anymore. I hope they’re doing OK.
Phe | November 12th, 2009 at 6:19 am
I agree with the danger situation. No question its our responsibility as adults to protect kids from harm, even when they are doing it to themselves or each other. And, among family, its unspoken that “it takes a village so don’t let my kid get away with anything and I’ll do the same.”
However–and this is where I’m already feeling in the minority on this post–in a park, airplane or other public setting, I try to first look to the parents to do something or even ask the parent to jump in. I would much rather a parent bring something to MY attention (if I’m watching another child or something) first than to just jump down my child’s throat. I would be incredibly offended if someone (especially another mom) turned around and asked my child to stop doing something and didn’t even try to engage me in the conversation. Then again, you would have heard me telling my 2 year old not to kick the seat. To which your back would have felt more at ease, but your ears might not have. But hey, at least I’m trying.
Brenda | November 12th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Being a mom, I want to be sure that my son is always safe. When we are out at a playground, I always spot some older kids trying to rough house around the little guys and I always will say something to them. Whether or not it is listened to, I feel better about opening my mouth to them.
It’s not just kids though…I do feel bad because somewhere, somehow, sometimes parents are just not the greatest parents there are…so sometimes we have to step in for those that are not the best of parents.
No offense to the good parents out there, but I have really believed strongly (and for a long time) that some people really should get a license to have kids…I mean you need a license to drive a car, get married and other things…just sayin’
Gia Saulnier | November 12th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
If there is a danger to your child or another child, you should definitely speak up. I have had a child much older than mine shove him head first down a slide (at 18 months) while his mom was sitting down chatting with her friends and after refraining from slapping the you-know-what out of the child I grabbed him by the hand, while consoling my child who had cuts and scrapes all over his face from landing face down in the dirt after going down the slide and yell at him until his mom came and took him away - also yelling at him. Yes, I was standing right there with my son as he was young but the kid ran up so fast and shoved him that I couldn’t react fast enough. However, when my kid runs out of the room and squeals loudly because he’s excited to see me and another parent shushed him at school, I just about drop kicked her.
Oceans Mom | November 12th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Ah yes…a touchy subject indeed.
@Phe: I am where you are now. The neighborhood where I am living currently has “changed” and there are lots of unsupervised children running wild. I don’t know where they live and I have never seen their parents. During the summer, they are outside until at least 9:30 p.m. During the school year, they come home and I don’t see them go until 8:30.
I am the Mean Lady on the Block. During the summer, several children planted themselves in my yard, pulled rocks from my landscaping bed, and not only threw them all into my neighbor’s driveway, but also threw them at my windows. I came outside and told them to stop and go away. They gave me the stink eye and WOULDN’T LEAVE. I promptly picked up the phone and called the cops. Found a parent then!
The current problem is kids roaming around asking to “rake my yard.” Doesn’t matter that I have been raking continously for the last couple f weeks or if it is raining. Last week I said no and they took the opportunity to go into my garage and steal my rake. So now I absolutely keep my garage door closed (sad), and they have been here three times this week. I told them that I knew they stole my rake and that I don’t want them ringing my doorbell anymore. Today I am going to buy a sign that says no soliciting. If they ring the doorbell again, I am not going to open it, but I do plan to call the police again.
We are also trying to move.
HP | November 13th, 2009 at 7:31 am
I am probably the “Nice lady”. Instead of telling the older kid that jumping on the bridge is “not cool”, I would zoom in on the 2 yr old and say “Oh honey, come down before you get hurt.” And gently take the toddler down. Then I would say, “Where is your mommy?” and look around worried until hopefully the toddler would be claimed and I would explain to her that some older kids were jumping and I was afraid he might fall. I don’t think it is fair that older kids have to tiptoe around younger kids when toddlers’ moms should be RIGHT there, watching the kid!! Or walking behind them, making sure the older kids don’t accidentally knock them down. Even though they are older, they are just KIDS, why should they have to worry so much about other people’s babies??? I don’t think they have that “oh, this is so wrong when there are little toddlers around” attitude. I’m sure some parents would take offense to that and say “OH! WELL MINE DO! Because I taught them to!” Gimme a break. I’m sorry, but if I saw my 9 yr old hopping on a bridge with his friends and all of a sudden stop to help the toddler, I would keel over and immediately take him to Wal-mart and buy him a toy.
As for the airplane situation I probably would have turned around, asked his name, is it his first time on a plane? How old are you? Smile at mom, tell her he’s a cutie, and turn around. You know what mom would most likely do? Tell him to stop kicking the “nice lady’s” seat! If I was in your position and you told my kid to stop kicking the seat, I might have said some comments also.
Its not of anyone’s business to discipline a child! All it does is make the other parent feel like crap because they cannot be on patrol 24/7 and be perfect. All it is telling other parents when you reprimand is “Hey, your kid is doing this or that, don’t you watch them? Don’t you teach them manners at home? Can’t you do something? Well, since YOU can’t I will!’ Darn right offensive.
So, let’s say you have reasonably well behaved kids that don’t act up, I bet that is why you get offended when people “correct” yours. Because nobody is perfect, and kids definitely aren’t pefect…
Mallory | September 26th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Mallory - I agree in the bridge situation that you describe where the bigger kids are there first. However, the usual that I see is one or two small children on a bridge or piece of equipment and one or two much older kids running up out of nowhere as fast as they can with no consideration of the much smaller children that were already there who they then proceed to knock down without so much as looking back. That is unacceptable. All kids need to learn what is appropriate and what isn’t. My son knows when a child is younger than him and is kind and careful when he comes across children younger than him. Many of my friends with older children, their children are kinder and gentler to my son and all younger children so it is possible. Its part of teaching children that they are not the only people in the universe and have to be aware of others.
Oceans Mom | September 27th, 2010 at 7:02 am